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Old 08-04-2012, 12:22 PM
madmotomike madmotomike is offline
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madmotomike Curb Monkey
Default Re: that sucks...and now i KNOW

if you are asking me?.....34+ inches wide.....4-6 inches height......5-9 inches of sweep/pullback. alot of pull back is desirable as it puts you hands closer to you with a good bend in your elbow. this is more comfortable and allows you to instantly and powerfully push-pull to deflect the front wheen and flick the bike in.

on a bar with less pullback you must move your chest/forward to create the bend in the elbow to empower the lightn'n steering input.

now a shorter bar will require the hands to move less distance but the movement will take more effort.

the limit to speed of steering is 1: physical commitment of the rider. 2:stability of the vehicle. ideally speed and "smootheness" are the goal. if you turn the bike so aggressively that you bottom the fork....you will crash on turn in. if you turn so aggressively that you plant hard parts in the pavement..you will crash.
the trick is to make you bike limitless as to response..and then develope parameters and policies that will keep you secure. example:when you bottom the fork under hard braking --YOU WILL CRASH. SO you learn to brake hard enough to instantly use up to 90% of the fork travel but no more. it works..just got to "load" the program/concept into riding plan.

same thing with steering input...experiment and play.. you can "FEEL" when you are doing it right. then it is YOUR decision ...how close to the margins you want to play...NEED to play.

just for fun..go for a ride on a highway. now change lanes. change lanes quickly...change lane "TRUCK !!! EMERGENCY NOW!!". NOTE how the bike responds? is the integrity good? is the suspension too soft (probably)? does the bike have an "echo" and wallow as it settles down?

now move hands inboard and try again. see?!

now for extreme lesson..grab the top of the triple clamp and try again! almost impossiable with out herculean effort and footwork.

now yOu know..

it is a fact that clubman or clip on bars are found on race bikes. the advantage is in speed/aerodynamics ..NOT IN HANDLING. on the race track ...RACERS are presumed to be more committed and knowledgable than joe average . THEY KNOW what it takes to get the bike turned aggressively. THEY accept the limitations because the mph advantage is worth it. RACING IS NOT CASUAL..it is competitive and demanding . YOU DO the things you have to do to win or to improve. on the race track if rider A accepts a compromise and benefits...YOU HAVE TO also.

now in the past..flat track racers who became world champion motorcycle racers. schwantz, spencer,lawson,rainey, etc knew that in competition you have to be able to ride to the tires/bike's limit and sometime over to win. leverage gives feel --strength. THIS equals CONFIDANCE. which leads to victory. note also these guys all started professional pavement racing on super bikes. big heavy unruly power laden monsters. how unruly? lawson had 2!!!! steering dampners on his big kawasaki!!

as bikes got lighter and wheel weights /diameters went down..all the way to 16 inch and to settle at the current 17 or 16.5 the bars got lower and narrower.

todays moto gp bikes use 17 or 16.5 wheels and weigh 335lbs. this is a long weigh from the 420-500 lbs of yester year. in normal sporting riding at normal levels of "motivation"...what ever you like can work. but when "intentions are high" and the beast is "fighting back"; you best have ENOUGH to have the CONFIDANCE to achieve what you NEED TO.

NOTE: bmws with longitudanal crankshafts can get away with 22 inch bars--bmw r100rs or bmw k100rs. the gyroscopic influence is not as singularly dominate as a conventional bike with all "three" gyros(f&r wheels and crankshaft) spinning in the same "plane". hence the bmws can have relatively conservative geometry and still out standing agility in spite of the lack of leverage.scooter: : i own two bmws. my r100 has a non stock big wide handsome bar...this old airhead is easily the most agile bike i have ever owned ...including my beloved sr500 or my mz baghira supermoto rep!! in the high country of north carolina---it is uncatchable. can maintain a blistering pace with out the rider moving or breaking a sweat!!

this is the result of a low center of mass....short wheelbase 54....gyroscope arangement...massive wide handle bar....classic wheel sizes 19/18(forgiving/stabilizing). nothing "transistions" like my "zebra/tiger painted r100".

any way ---ride long ----enjoy-----see you on the road
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